Baghdad

[oldspice]

I am completely horrified by the story of a terrorist explosion in Baghdad in which explosives were strapped to two mentally handicapped women and remotely detonated.

 

What kind of savages could do such a thing? Dozens died, as ever, and that is also horrifying but to use helpless and vulnerable people in such a way is, as far as I am concerned, one of the worst atrocities I have ever heard of. 

Yes, I had the same thoughts. f**k this "let's be understanding and sympathetic to their cause and suffering." We need to obliterate these extremists off the planet.

Easier said than done but the time has gone for wishy-washy liberalism.

[MayRae]

I believe that people who could deliberately set out to charm and brainwash a woman into strapping explosives to her baby and then leaving it in it's pram to 'go off' when they considered that the explosion would do the most damage, are capable of absolutely anything.

So whilst appalled and disgusted I am not as surprised as I dearly wish I could be.

I personally don't care about their cause or their suffering. If they want to die for some fanatical cause that is their privilege.

But to take innocent people with them, or to use the innocents of this world (as in this case and in the cases of the babies and children made into living bombs by these lunatics), is unforgivable, and I hope when they are dead they burn forever for the atrocities they have incited or personally performed. 

I am afraid I am with paulham in all this. Theirs is not the way to peace and they know it. They actions only prove that they don't want peace, their actions tell us that they want fear and death and destruction and it's time to put a stop to this now.

Whatever it takes. 

Those poor women and their families, there is nothing you can say to describe how awful a thing this is.

This has to end now. It's way past time.

[oldspice]

The trouble is, if they are prepared to go to these lenths, what will stop them? Even if you could find them, executing them would just further their cause as they would be held up as on one hand champions who died for their beliefs and on the other victims killed by the enemies.

 

As ever, you have to change hearts and minds.

Root and branch eradication of all their kind and supporters/sympathasizers.

[MayRae]

OK oldspice, I admit you have the voice of reason on your side. And I do agree with what you say, but unfortunately your way leaves me feeling helpless at the mercy of these lunatics that no-one can find.

And that is not a feeling I like.

 

I also wish I could say that if I found one of them, and I knew that they had done something like the awful things under discussion, that I would be open to the idea of a big discussion in order to try and change his heart and mind.

But hand on my heart that would be the very last thing I would want to do to them.

[oldspice]

Yes, I see what you mean, but when I say hearts and minds, I do not really mean sitting down with the guilty ones for a nice chat and cup of tea. I mean it takes a 'long, slow march through the institutions' to quote a famous left wing theorist. This mean using exactly what you attributed to me - the voice of reason - reaching hearts and minds on an international basis so that people do not get drawn into these fanatic groups.

[goldencup]

Hmmm, as you say - a good theory.

The unpalatable truth is that much of these unspeakable and appalling murders are fuelled by the actions of the west, particularly the US and UK governments.  The war in Iraq resulted in a pyrrhic victory for the allies.   The country has desolved into chaos.  Some how the middle eastern countries themselves have to sort this out without our interference.  At the same time, the US government must cease supporting Israel in its oppression of Palestine.

[oldspice]

Could not agree more. The trouble is that, just as much of the trouble is fuelled by western policies and interference, many of the terrrorists are influenced and stirred up by their own people, also located nice and comfortabally in the west.

[MayRae]

I think that things would calm down significantly if only the US and the UK would learn when to mind it's own business.

I am not saying there are not times and occasions when intervention is necessary, but I do not think it is always necessary, and certainly not to the extent that they involve themselves.

I think there needs to be more thought put into selecting when, and where, and how, and how much, to help. To stop that help and support becoming unwanted and unnecessary interferance.

They also need to try harder to learn to recognise when the need for their help is no longer there, so they can slowly retreat and allow the nation to take care of itself again. I think often they stay too much in evidence for far too long, and that helps no-one, especially not the country/people they are supposed to be there for.

Iraq has nothing to do with altruistic aims of those governments, rather it has everything to do with oil and its continued supply.

Look at Zimbabwe.

Why no International intervention there?

On the other hand Afghanistan is so messed up that if left to its own devices is likely to wreak devastation on many other countries in the world due to the Taleban and their promotion of heroin production to help fund their cause.

If the world could rid itself of its dependency on oil I have little doubt that a lot of the world's ills would significantly lessen but we still need an International policeman (toothless UN?) to control the despots who pop up from time to time.

Israel/Palestine is another kettle of fish entirely....

[oldspice]

Yes, I don't see much intervention there.

A lot of the troubles in Africa are due to the 'carving up' of the region into 'countries' with little regard for the existing ancient tribal lands.

[MayRae]

Yes a lot of the old tribes in Africa are like the Elephants there. They see no reason to take any notice of the new boundaries, they have nothing to do with the old ways and so seem to be irrelevant.

Of course that starts trouble, both for tribespeople and Elephants.

 

And too much in this world depends on what others will get out of it.

I feel shame that a lot of aid is only given when there is something in it for us.

 

Help should be given freely to those who need it, at their time of need, not once all the minor details of how that help will be repaid have been hashed out. It could be too late by then.

 

You know the world just doesn't seem to work this way. It's time for a change I think.

I wish it could be cleared up as easily as say, a letter to Santa, asking him to fix it all.

I think you'll find it is called human nature.

As a species we are selfish.

paulham2008-02-06 20:42:57