Author Topic: President Obama  (Read 2436 times)

Offline oldspice

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President Obama
« on: January 23, 2009, 09:38:50 am »
I can't believe let this considerable event pass unnoticed on our Forum. So, will he be the greatest president in America's history so far or will he be just another mouth piece??
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Offline netbuddy

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Re: President Obama
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 09:51:25 am »
Time will tell.

What you have to realize is the the Neo-Conservatives are still running the administration and untill they are forceibly removed from their office, you will only ever have mouth pieces.

If you dig in to the history of american politics, you will appreciate the fact that all US presidents from the late 40's onwards are just mouth pieces and those who try to make policy change outside of what the Neo's want, well look at Kennedy...

Anyway, that is all I am saying on the subject as in the past it has been taken the wrong way too many times and ends up in a "Shit fest" as some moderators call it.

Well you know what the truth does to people, they get all touchey about it.

I wish the US President the very best of luck at pushing that particular pile of quick sand up hill without a wheel barrow.

paulham

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Re: President Obama
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 09:52:35 am »
What he said.

drterror666

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Re: President Obama
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 11:27:05 am »
They always say that there are two topics you should steer clear of on a forum - religion and politics.  Well, f**k 'em, because I can say what I like.

Everyone's going gaga over Obama because he's black!  Well done, everyone.  Now that we have the race issue sorted, he's just another American President, albeit a Democrat.  But, as netbuddy said, his word ain't worth s**t as long as the Republican fascist morons are in Congress.

Thank you...

Offline oldspice

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Re: President Obama
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 08:10:00 pm »
Acutally, he's mixed race. I mean we would hardly fail to acknowledge his black genes so why shouldn't we acknowledge his white ones? Having said that, having a black/white mixed race President in the USA is a huge step forward, given their racial history.
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Re: President Obama
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 11:43:19 am »
Acutally, he's mixed race. I mean we would hardly fail to acknowledge his black genes so why shouldn't we acknowledge his white ones? Having said that, having a black/white mixed race President in the USA is a huge step forward, given their racial history.

Sorry Oldspice I have to take issue with this point of view.  I agree that his inauguration is a huge step forward in US black history.  However, I cannot accept that he is 'mixed race'.  In the context of the history and culture of the USA, Barak Obama is black.  He would certainly have been declared black under segregation.  Indeed in some parts of the USA anyone with 'apparently' one black great grand parent was deemed black under what was known as the eigth part rule.

The idea that we acknowledge his black genes and not his white ones is a common misconception based on the misunderstanding of genetics.  The notion of black and white genes is simply meaningless.  All humans on earth today share about 99.88% of their DNA.  Of this remaining 0.12% about 85% of the variation will be found within a population and 15% between populations.  In other words there's more difference between Africans as a population than there is between Africans and Europeans as populations.

Coming back to Barak Obama, the issue of skin tone is defined arbitrarily by western history, so that people of an African origin in USA are black and those of a European origin are white.  However skin colour has little genetic basis but merely determined by the expression of certain alleles within that person's 'genetic fingerprint'.  This can be seen readily by looking at the children of black and white partners.  Often there is a mixture of skin tone even though the children have exactly half of their genes from one parent and the other half from the other. 

The election of Barak Obama is a landmark in black American history, but now that it's happened we should move on and see him not as a black man but as a man.

Offline oldspice

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Re: President Obama
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 12:13:06 pm »
Under the eighth part rule I would be Dutch. That rule was devised to oppress and segregate black Americans.  I am not thinking about genes in terms of the scientific definition and distribution, I am simply acknowledging that President Obama has white relatives and in terms of race - he is of mixed race origins. He ought to be able to celebrate his white cultural origins as well as his black (and I am sure he does).  Of course, it is much more important for him to be seen as black and I totally accept this. However, I can't help thinking that it would have been very difficult indeed for him to get as far as he has if he was totally black. It's something people hardly dare mention because it has been such a step forward for Obama to have got this far.
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Re: President Obama
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 12:50:42 pm »
Under the eighth part rule I would be Dutch. That rule was devised to oppress and segregate black Americans.  I am not thinking about genes in terms of the scientific definition and distribution, I am simply acknowledging that President Obama has white relatives and in terms of race - he is of mixed race origins. He ought to be able to celebrate his white cultural origins as well as his black (and I am sure he does).  Of course, it is much more important for him to be seen as black and I totally accept this. However, I can't help thinking that it would have been very difficult indeed for him to get as far as he has if he was totally black. It's something people hardly dare mention because it has been such a step forward for Obama to have got this far.

I hear what you say Oldspice. I hope you understand that my rejoinders are intended in a friendly and positive way.  I can only assume, that his relatively light skin tone has made his election more palatable to those that might have some axe to grind with regards to his ethnicity, if we might call it that.  However, this is an assumption and I would hope that he would have been elected had he been of the tone of say, Lennox Lewis. 
What actually constitutes being black is not an easy thing to assess.  Ultimately it is arbitrary and I don't think the term 'totally black' means very much.  For reasons I explained very briefly in my first reply, blacknes or whiteness is a bit fuzzy and cannot be tested scientifically. 

It is interesting to note a few facts revealed by genealogical inquiries by the Church of the Latterday Saints (Mormons).  They have put together something called the International Genealogical Index (IGI.)
This was done simply by sending out hundreds of people to churches and records offices and copying BMD data.  They now have the birth records of a billion people!  What was found in the USA among the black population was quite startling.  Of all black Americans, 75% have at least one white ancestor.  While 25% have more white ancestors than black.  By this definition 25% of black Americans could quite legitimately call themselves white, even some of the darker ones! 

The concept of Race itself is now not accepted by most human biologists.  The problem is that man has travelled so much within the last 10,000 years that all the characteristcis which might have been present before the last great Ice age have been mixed up and now everyone is just a mixture of bits and bobs from around the globe. 

Of course certain features predominate in certain areas, like the pronounced epicanthic fold in Eastern Asians and the darker skin of Africans, but these are characteristics from of hundreds of thousands of years of adaptation and have very little to do with their genes.

Offline oldspice

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Re: President Obama
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 02:40:56 pm »
Hi Bounty,

This is an interesting and mature debate and it's refreshing to be able to take part.

I am familiar with the IGI as I have used it when researching my family history. I am not at all surprised to find that many black Americans find they have white relatives. In part, this can be explained by the number of slave masters who impregnated their female slaves.  We do not have to go back many generations to find this happening. Many living black Americans would find they have a great grandparent who was born as a result of a slave relative being raped by their masters or their master's sons or other relatives or white servants.

I certainly do not think that black Americans with a white relative should have to call themselves white. Neither do I think that black Americans who find they have a white great grandparent should have to acknowledge that white ancestry. However, President Obama had a white grandmother and in fact he has some Irish ancestry also. He does not, as far as can be established, have any relatives who were slaves. I am sure that if questioned he would say that he was a mixed race black American.
Old but spicey!

Offline loulou

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Re: President Obama
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 08:37:16 pm »
Is he an arab?
A power-crazy bitch who lives in a fantasy world

Offline Forth Bridges

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Re: President Obama
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 08:43:18 pm »
If he is an 8 year person then I will have to do a very good job, saying that ANYTHING IS better than the last one!

I will not pass judgement until the mid term ( if he is still like he could win another 2 senate seat and then he will be able to pass anything he likes for the next 2 years!